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Happy Hacker Digest March 3, 1997
===============================================================================
         This is a moderated list for discussions of *legal* hacking.
                           Moderator is Carolyn Meinel.
 
                       
              Better yet, post to the
                        Hackers forum: http://www.infowar.com

                   Please don't send us anything you wouldn't
                  email to your friendly neighborhood narc, OK?

     To subscribe or unsubscribe, just
     use the subscribe boxes on the menubars. If you decide you
      just want to use the forum and not get these mailings, I promise my
           feelings won't get hurt if you unsubscribe from this list.
                                 Happy hacking!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Truth is often eclipsed but never extinguished." -- Livy
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

TABLE OF CONTENTS
   o Cracking Info
   o Re: Overdosed Unix
   o Fan of Mac Unix

===============================================================================
*** CRACKING INFO
===============================================================================

From: cL0ut <strider@unix.aardvarkol.com>

   First I'd like to say that the new formatting of Happy Hackers
   Digest, is *MUCH* better, and I hope it stays like that. Next, I
   have a question about cracking passwd files. Say I got a passwd
   file called "shadow", am I right in assuming that's like a back-up
   of the "passwd" file? Also, I have a sh**ty 286, 1MB RAM 'puter,
   and I was wondering if there's a FASTER cracker other than BRUTE,
   because I was trying to crack the file with a 2MB word list, and
   after 7.5hrs it was STILL on "A"'s. Any suggestions and comments
   would be appreciated...thanx.
       -=cL0ut=-

Moderator:

   How fast a password cracker runs depends in part on how
   hard the passwords are to crack. You can crack "apple" or "kiss" much
   faster than "x4M&19cd#". Chances are you hit some of the hard ones.
   Also, I *do* hope you had permission to crack that file. Many
   sysadmins regularly run a password cracker on their password files so
   they can alert users of the need to change easily cracked passwords.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
From: "NiNo" <NiNo@main.rgv.net>

   I have multiple accts at my ISP.  SO, I thought "Try to Rlogin" as
   someone else.  I have acct "A" and acct "b"  so I (think I ) made
   acct "a" a trusted host with "B" and vise versa.    I would try to
   log in and it would ask for a password?  Maybe my commands were
   wrong, I put this in the .rhosts file (I saw it somewhere on the
   net):

               echo  "main.rgv.net maverick" >~/.rhosts
               Domain---->^^^^^^^   ^^^^^^^^^<-----Username

   I just saw a *.txt file that said that would work.  I want to know
   for sure.  You don't have to TELL ME EXACTLY, just point me in the
   direction of some *.txt's for me to read I have done SO many
   fr****** searches for "Rlogin" stuff and cant find it!  Thanks
   Carolyn.

   ThE nEWbIe HaCkErZ lOvE tO haTe....
   nino

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Sender: jericho@dimensional.com

   >       more fun using hacker knowledge to make an honest and very
   >       prosperous living than to get thrown in jail. That's how
   >       jericho and evil pete make their livings, right?

   What?! I sell crack for a living Carolyn! :)   Yes. That is how I
   got into the industry.

   (Moderator: for the humor challenged -- this is a JOKE, OK?)

   >       (jericho means that while in DOS you can interchange caps
   >       and lower case, in Unix it makes a difference. All those
   >       Unix commands above are lower case: 'cp', 'mv', 'ls', 'rm'
   >       'cd'. But I wouldn't get too critical of the author, after
   >       all, he's the first person to start posting really detailed
   >       explanations to this list of how to crack into Unix
   >       computers.)

   But Carolyn, you more than anyone know how I want ACCURATE
   technical info posted. If it isn't accurate, then don't post it.
   So, I will continue to critique this kind of stuff and be quite
   mean in the process. Glad to see you are going behind me giving a
   more friendly and accurate description.

   >       (I think he's pointing out that once you are running telnet
   >       your commands no longer turn up in the shell log file.
   >       Look, I agree, there are a zillion ways your breakin can be
   >       logged, but many sysadmins only look at the obvious.)

   Since we don't know the sysadmin, we can only talk about what the
   system will do. The system will log that telnet. No, not in the
   shell log, but that is trivial.

   >    2. Run a program Similar to The following code:

   This is the code for that thing you said couldn't be done in the
   last...

   >       Now this is Just a very small Code that will Unshadow on
   >       some systems but there are many larger codes that will work
   >       on almost any system.

   But this will not work if you get the passwd file via FTP.

   >       3. Now that you have it unshadowed if you didn't get root
   >       or just want a normal account you can login to a shell as
   >       one of the accounts you cracked and type
   >
   >          cat /etc/shadow

   'permission denied'. Remember, the purpose of the shadow file is to
   store the passwds so they are readable only by the admin. Since
   /etc/passwd has to be 644 (world readable), the need for a more
   secure storage came about.  This is very simple.

   >       what amateurs like the Gray Areas Liberation Front (GALF)
   >       use.  The GALF guys simply wipe system files after
   >       visiting.  Now on

   Sometimes. If you are one for rumors... GALF sat on the server of a
   well known security expert for over 6 months without being
   detected. It is not easy to do that, especially on smaller systems
   with a handful of user accounts.

   >       same path as the Masters of Deception did. They found out
   >       that if you make hackers mad enough, they start helping the
   >       Feds, and are really good at gathering evidence.

   Most good hackers share the ethics of not being malicious toward
   other hackers, and tend to not help the feds in any matter. Also
   consider ALL the details of who GALF has hacked, and why. In most
   cases I have seen it was simply an action/reaction response to
   previous events.

   >       computer crime detectives go to the computer the router
   >       points to. If that  computer has had its files wiped, we
   >       just check out the computer before that, and so on. We know
   >       your modus operandi, GALF. Are you going to get mad and
   >       hack me again for telling the Happy Hacker list that you
   >       aren't elite? Go ahead, make my day!

   So if it is so simple, why hasn't he been caught yet? Or u4ea? Or
   Angry Johnny? Or...

Moderator:
 
   I'm keeping my mouth shut on Angry Johnny because he's
   been a publicity goldmine for me. Look at the mistake John Markoff
   made. Once Kevin Mitnick came to trial everyone realized that super
   reporter Markoff was full of baloney.  So I need Angry Johnny to
   stay in hiding. Don't get caught, please?

   As for GALF, that team used to strike everyone who said anything
   bad about Netta Gilboa. I don't agree that opposing Gilboa should
   be punished with wiping system files. In my case, GALF goofed. Some
   jokester posted an alleged attack by me on Gilboa to a hacker
   bulletin board, and GALF went on the war path against me. You see
   the results -- now I attack Gilboa at every opportunity. In fact,
   GALF has become such a joke that lots of people are attacking
   Gilboa just to have fun seeing what kind of attack GALF does next.

   If any of you readers want the excitement of dueling with GALF, the
   best place to go to incite attacks is to post to the dc-stuff list
   (subscribe by emailing majordomo@dis.org with message "subscribe
   dc-stuff.") Also, GALF guys attend every def con convention taking
   notes on who says bad things about Netta.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
From: Iggy Drougge <optimus@canit.se>

   A Michael Oztosomething or other was telneting around, when he
   found a thing which wanted you to type "cli". What he got into was
   an Annex server, used by many ISPs and other Internet hosts. They
   are known for their security, which I'm inclined to agree with,
   since they don't run exploitable services, but only let you log on,
   and from there run arbitrary commands, such as rlogin, telnet, slip
   and ppp. They are mostly used to answer modems, or as a single port
   to all machines on a network, where telnetting to the machines is
   not allowed from the outside.

   On another note, Carolyn had problems deciphering the Swedish
   someone posted to the list. It seems like the person who did so was
   not aware of being subscribed to the list, he was wondering whether
   it was some reading practice for his forthcoming English test. =/

   BTW, what is a narc?

Moderator:

   This is an ancient term belying the Yippie/hippie origins of
   hackerdom. Back in the 1960s "narc" was slang for an undercover
   agent enforcing narcotics laws. Then around 1970 the big thing for
   hippies was learning to phone phreak. In fact the Youth
   International Party (Yippies), founded by Abbie Hoffman, began
   putting out a magazine called the "Technical Assistance Program"
   (TAP) with technical details on phreaking. Since these guys were
   already heavy into illegal drugs, it was natural to call the people
   who tried to catch phone fraudsters "narcs." Then as computer
   hacking began to be criminalized, the term "narc" spread to
   computer crime detectives.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
From: " Intergalactic  <--" <intergalactic@hotmail.com>

   Awhile back, Bronc Buster posted an exploit for BSD. (the exploit
   consisted of ftp'ing to the local host, suspending the job with a
   [ctrl]+[z], then doing a kill -11 on that job and returning to the
   foreground, thereby creating a core dump which contains encrypted
   passwd's). After experimenting on a couple different systems, I
   have found this will work on OSF 1 as well. Is anyone here familiar
   with John the Ripper? If you are, I was wondering: How does the
   -single mode work? What is it doing? I didn't get any of the docs
   with the copy I had, but the -single mode seems to work on roughly
   1 out of 20 passwd files. I always thought the you HAD to have a
   wordlist for a cracking program to work, but John in -single mode
   does not use one.

Moderator:

   This sounds significant enough that you may want to advise the
   Bugtraq list of this hole. You may submit news on security flaws by
   emailing aleph1@undergound.org. This is also the subscription
   address.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
From: "Xenakis" <xenakis@epix.net>

   Quick question....after seeing numerous Aptivia Home Director
   commercials, I wonder why someone hasn't tried to hack into
   one....(I just started laughing during the commercial when the
   puter started up the gas fireplace... ;) )

   -xenakis@epix.net

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
From: Marco Pappalardo <bethesda@netropolis.be>

   hmmmm....a Unix hacking tutorial...let's take a look :
   - "how to cover your tracks" : yeah right what about wmtp, umtp,
     logs,...?  not typing in any parameters ain't gonna save
     you...the moment you log into a computer, whatever the login and
     password, your IP address goes to the log...

   - "how to get the password file" : anonymously ftp to a site and
     get /etc/passwd ? no offense but have you ever run a Linux or
     Unix server ?  in case you hadn't noticed the passwd file in the
     /etc directory is actually in /home/ftp/etc . That's right, it's
     not the REAL passwd, just a stripped down version of it. Most of
     the time all the privileged accounts are locked out and they
     don't have many user logins and passwords.

   - "shadowed password files" : when the password file has a * in the
     password field it does NOT mean the password is shadowed, it
     means it's been locked out (read useless, it's like it's not
     there). It does makes sense though that you don't know it (or
     maybe you did ?) if you think that all the password files you've
     probably ever seen come from /home/ftp/etc (no offense here...).

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
From: anonymous

   OK, I have a question. Lets say you want access to a system (it
   happens to be System V release 4.0) that is not run by a bunch a
   w***** that left a default user/pass. There is FTP access, but the
   password file is of course shadowed (x's in place of encrypted
   passwords). I try to "get /etc/shadow" like suggested and it says
   no such file. Now what.  Unshadow.c seems useless since I need to
   be logged in to run it on there machine. You can run and compile
   from anon. FTP. Can some post a way to gain access to such servers
   (which are almost all servers on the net these days, no one leave
   defaults in place if they have half a brain...)

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Received: jericho@nova.dimensional.com

   > From: "Roger A. Prata" <prata@cyber-wizard.com> What ever
   > happened to the big competition between you and Jericho and the
   > suicidal.foobar.com box??  Any more action?
   >
   > Moderator: jericho still hasn't given me a notarized contract to
   > test his security. Also, just after the johnny xchaotic email
   > bombings suicidal.foobar.com suffered a nervous breakdown, err,
   > hard disk crash.  Imagine that!  I got some interesting results
   > on a traceroute just now. It got into a loop at dimensional.com's
   > routers.

   Oh gno! More conspiracy theories!#@$!

   Status: foobar.com was sold to a company in MA that wanted the
   name. I have since registered sekurity.org which will be up soon. I
   am currently waiting on a second ISDN adapter (the first has no
   Unix support). As for the 'crash', it had nothing to do with any
   user. It had everything to do with me running that wily 'fdisk'
   program after upgrading. The new system has just under 5 gigs in
   hard drives, 10 gigs in jaz, 128 megs of RAM, and of course the
   ISDN. Once it is back up, Carolyn is more than welcome to attack
   again. And as I have said before, I will not send a notarized
   contract. I don't wish to give up that information about myself
   that is required for that contract. However, this is at least the
   10th time I have posted to the list saying it is OK. If that isn't
   good enough, oh well. I already had enough fun with the old systems
   and keeping people out. The new system will most likely be a bigger
   target. :)

   Oh.. and I did catch her probes in my logs. She was never
   successful.

   > Can your ISP detect a ping -l or ping -f? (would this be
   > considered illegal??)

   Probably not with a default configuration, but it can certainly be
   setup to do so.

   > Um, try going on any EFnet server, and join #2600.

   Yeah.. no hacking there.

   > BTW - If you want to apply your hacking skills, try getting ops
   > on a channel that you hate. Flooding (while sometimes lame) if
   > fun too.

   Taking ops on a channel is NOT hacking.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
From: alma34 <root@ozemail.com.au>

   Since discovering the system I mentioned in a previous digest I
   have come to understand showmount as being a very powerful tool for
   would-be hackers to discover whether a system is hackable.. So to
   illuminate you sysadmins who I know DO leave entire file systems
   mountable by EVERYONE as to why you shouldn't, and also to show
   hackers how such hacks can be accomplished..

   BTW.. This type of insecurity is increasingly rare but it's more
   common than finding a unshadowed passwd file in the ftp /etc
   directory..

   First lets look at using the command. From your shell prompt type..

   [/root]# showmount -e targethost
   Export list for targethost: /cdrom (everyone) / (everyone)

   If this is the case you've hit paydirt.. and sysadmins if you run
   this on your system and it comes up the same you're in deeep
   doo-doo. What a hacker could then do is the following..

   [/root]#mkdir /hack
   [/root]#mount targethost:/etc /hack
   [/root]#cd /hack
   [/hack]#vi passwd...

   And so on.. A hacker could get in and edit the passwd file..
   enabling a disable account.. increasing his own to uid of 0
   decrease roots to 500, etc.. This is a very dumb setup for
   targethost. However you may have received the following from your
   showmount query.

   [/root]# Export list for targethost:
             / stupid.targethost /var/spool/lpd  (everyone)

   So you say to yourself.. "hmm, targethost is exporting everything
   to stupid.targethost (another computer on its network..) lets try
   that one out..

   [/root]#showmount -e stupid.targethost
         Export list for stupid.targethost: / (everyone)

   And once again you've hit paydirt... However when you looked at the
   passwd file their was only two accounts.. Of course you don't fuck
   with them so you create or enable one. But when you login with that
   account..

   [/root]#rlogin -l test stupid.targethost test
   login not allowed on this terminal..

   Login:

   Hmmm.. you're not allowed to login with that. So you try some other
   ones but you get the same result. Is it unhackable..? By no means..
   But what you'll have to do is play with the actual enabled
   accounts. Do a more of the passwd file. and write down the
   encrypted passwd.. 78hkjkHlj or something.. Then carefully delete
   it and increase the uid to 0. If you don't know what field to do
   this in then I won't tell you.. figure it out yourself.. Then login
   in with the account.

   [/root]#rlogin -l user stupid.targethost

   Welcome to stupid.targethost!

   [/user]#

   Now you should remember that targethost was exporting "/" to
   stupid.targethost. So now that you have root privileges you create
   a temporary directory and..

   [/user]#mkdir /temp
   [/user]#mount targethost:/etc /temp
   [/user]#cd /temp
   [/temp]#vi passwd..
   [/temp]#cp passwd /user
   [/user]#exit

   Then the hacker would need to replace the encrypted passwd in its
   EXACT form otherwise it will be noticed.. You should also put in
   the correct uid otherwise someone will notice a # where they
   shouldn't. Of course this should always be done when no-on is on
   the system.. or someone's been idle for over a few hours.. Late at
   night's always a good idea.

   A hacker could put in various backdoors to ensure future access..
   To read up on what backdoors exist (there are heaps!) go to:

   http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/3498/security.htm

   A hacker would then have complete control of your system. However
   if he wasn't smart he/she would be easy to notice. I hope this has
   illustrated to you sysadmins that mounting you systems is a very
   dangerous practice unless the proper precautions are in place..
   Tripwire is a good one to detect changes in file such as passwd.
   However that can be gotten around easily too. I suggest all
   sysadmins and security consultants check their systems immediately
   to detect whether the problem exists..

   Of course if you received the following responce from showmount
   when you queried a system...

   mount clntudp_create: RPC: Port mapper failure - RPC: Unable to
   receive

   or..

   mount clntudp_create: RPC: Program not registered

   Then you would have some difficulty in attacking targethost with
   this method.. Also a hacker would be smart to change his default
   shell to disable history logging, as well as modify various other
   accounting logs..

   A few other off topic things..

   I would like to apologize to Betty from Infowar for kicking her off
   #hackers. I acted in a totally f***** elitist manner and I
   apologize for it.

   Another thing is that I am currently compiling a FAQ for #hackers
   as well as a webpage. Any submissions, help, comments, or
   criticisms are welcomed.  Please send 'em to warpy@null.net.

   Last thing... Could we please see some more FEMALE hackers on
   #hackers. I don't believe that the majority of hackers are made up
   of adolescent boys.. And it would be encouraging to see some Unix
   proficient females apart from our illustrious moderator...

   That's about all for now... adios!

   Warpy

===============================================================================
*** RE: OVER DOSED UNIX
===============================================================================
From: Vithar <vithar@connect.ab.ca>

   > 1.Ftp Anon get Shadowed Passwd

   >       sometimes the defaults will work which are in this passwd,
   >       such as games.  Usually admins don't care to change this so
   >       you can login as games to get the real passwd file you know
   >       the big one that is likely unshadowed.

   I'm not sure what you are trying to say here.  Why would any
   sysadmin create a ftp account for the id games ?  And if they did,
   why would they not put a password on it ?  FTP servers usually use
   their own passwd file ( as set up by the sysadmin ), not the main
   system passwd file.  The FTP passwd file will only contain id's for
   valid ftp logins.

   [ Code deleted for brevity ]

   >       Now this is Just a very small Code that will Unshadow on
   >       some systems but there are many larger codes that will work
   >       on almost any system.

   All the above does is spit out the contents of the passwd file.
   You can do as much by typing 'cat /etc/passwd'.

   >       3. Now that you have it unshadowed if you didn't get root
   >       or just want a normal account you can login to a shell as
   >       one of the accounts you cracked and type

   Assuming you didn't get root:

   >          cat /etc/shadow

      Usually only readable by root.  So, you would not be able to
      look at it.

   >          cat /etc/passwd

   Which, if it's shadowed, would avail you nothing.

   >  * -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- * Closeit.c * -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- *
   >  this is a rather kewl exploit to close programs  and delete you
   >  * from system logs */

   [ SOME CODE DELETED ]

   >    fd = open("/etc/utmp", O_RDWR); if (fd < 0)
   >    perror("/etc/utmp");

      Which would trigger the perror on my system.  utmp is not world
      writable and trying to open it read/write would fail.  So, you
      are still listed in utmp, now what ?  Of course, if you have
      root access, hiding your tracks becomes almost trivial ( almost
      due to programs like tripwire).

   > 1. Anonymous FTP cd to /etc and get the passwd

   A properly configured ftp site will not let an anonymous user into
   /etc.

   > 2. Some systems there is a file called PHF in the /cgi-bin
   > directory. If

   True, PHF is a bad cgi program.  However, any sysadmin worth the
   name also knows this and has already deleted it.  In fact, several
   of the "stock" cgi scripts that come with some web server
   distributions are vulnerable.  Again these are well known and
   usually removed.

   > SHADOWING
   >
   >   U finally get the password file and all the items in the second
   >   field are X or !  or * then the password file is shadowed.
   >   Shadowing is just a method of adding

   A '*' in the passwd field means that the account cannot be used for
   login.  Many applications require their own user and/or group id
   and the '*' helps ensure that users do not log on with these
   accounts.  Of course, some buffer overflow exploits will drop a
   user into a shell with the uid/gid of the program that was running
   ;-) .

   > password file. Unfortunately there is no way to "unshadow" a
   > password file but sometimes there are backup password files that
   > aren't shadowed. Try looking for files such as /etc/shadow and
   > other stuff like that.
 
   Again, you are counting on a sysadmin being careless and leaving
   these backups lying about where you can look at them.  Most shadow
   passwd files are only readable by root, or at most, an
   administrative group.

   >  type PINE to start the Unix e mail program there are many more
   >  programs but pine is my favorite.

   One interesting tidbit about pine.  If you decide you want to
   advertise your presence and piss of the user whose identity you've
   assumed, just run pine while he/she has it up.  Pine will change
   their session to read-only and you will be given write access. :-)

   >   You can do whatever you want to the servers http'd system

   As root, you can do anything.  However, a lot of systems do not
   allow remote root logins ( i.e., you have to be at the console
   to login as root ).  As a user, you can only play with stuff
   that the user has access to.  If the sysadmin is in the least
   bit security conscious, it'll take a bit of work and ingenuity
   to get higher access.

   > NOTE: It's best to hack late at night because root can't type who
   > and see you don't have the right IP. Usually he doesn't feel like
   > wasting his time baby-sitting uses so it is usually OK and if
   > they see your ipo there not going to hunt you down I mean there
   > trying to run a business not play superhero

   I can see this being the case on a large site.  But on a smaller
   site ( less than 50 or so users ) there is a good chance that the
   sysadmin will be more likely to recognize a login name that he/she
   did not authorize.  Personally, if I see someone on the system that
   I do not recognize, I try and track them down ( it's good exercise
   if nothing else <g> ).

   > (Moderator: This is one of the best reasons to do no harm if you
   > do choose to crack into the computer of someone who doesn't want
   > you there. If you don't cause trouble, they are likely to just
   > ignore you. But if you erase files, make copies of sensitive
   > material, or insult people, they may decide to try to get you
   > thrown in jail.)

   Hmmm.  I wouldn't risk my freedom on this.  But, if you are not
   doing anything immediately damaging, the sysadmin may elect to just
   watch and see what you are doing.  Who knows, you could
   accidentally point out more security holes to him/her. :-)

   > 8. Type telnet and telnet to another shell account ;) (now that's
   > anonymous)

   Really ?  My logs would show this.

   > 10. Harass other Users With!
   As soon as you let them know you are there, you will lose access
   very quickly.  Of course, if the above exploits gave you access in
   the first place, the sysadmin is so f*****d up that you could
   probably leave yourself a few back doors and they wouldn't likely
   find them. :-)

   > 11. cd to /sbin/games/ to see a list of games (pretty crappy
   > stuff like terminal tetris)
   Or doom, or quake.  Of course, you have to have access to X or the
   console to actually play them. <g>

   >  If you feel that you have what it takes to be a serious hacker
   >  then you must first know a clear definition of hacking and how
   >  to be an ethical hacker. Become familiar with Unix
   >  environments and if you are only just
 

   The above is absolutely correct.  Hacking is not running nifty
   little programs or tricks, it's knowledge.  Knowing the system
   better ( or at least as good ) as the people who run it is the sign
   of a hacker. :-)

   P.S. - I do not consider myself a hacker as I still have a lot to
   learn.

   /-----  /\oo/\ Debian ! /\oo/\ ----------------------------------------\
   |                                      |  The more clocks you have ... |
   | vithar@connect.ab.ca                 |  .....  the less sure you are |
   | http://www.connect.ab.ca/~vithar     |  of what time it is !         |
   \----------------------------------------------------------------------/

===============================================================================
*** FAN OF MAC UNIX
===============================================================================

From: "Pherdite Herma" <kewlpotatoe@hotmail.com>

   In response to what you said about Linux being hacker-friendly, I
   would just like to say that the BeOS for Macintoshes is supposedly
   the most hacker-friendly OS for the common desktop machine.  It's
   UNIX based, which probably contributes to its value.  The NextStep
   OS is supposedly almost as hacker-friendly, and I have heard from
   numerous sources that Apple will do the smart thing and make a
   version for Intel compatible machines.
 
Moderator:

   Alas, the NeXt operating system is a hackers' paradise because it
   has so many hackable holes...

===============================================================================
Carolyn Meinel
M/B Research -- The Technology Brokers
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                      End Happy Hacker Digest March 3, 1997
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